Curse

Mahanaxar · Apr 12, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

First, sorry for my crappy english, but there isn't a decent italian board and i need a reliable opinion on this build.

We ended the last season at rank 145 with a ranger spike build, but now we want to move on something more elaborated and adaptable.
We failed miserably the last tests with an IB-similar build, lacking both offensive and defensive power.
Maybe a degen build might be a better solution for us at this moment, but my guildmates are a bit reluctant trying and testing new builds.

Here is the build, feel free to post any kind of comment:

Axe War

Warrior/Elementalist
Level: 20

Strength: 10 (9+1)
Axe Mastery: 16 (12+4)
Tactics: 10 (9+1)
Air Magic: 3

Eviscerate [Elite] (Axe Mastery)
Executioner's Strike (Axe Mastery)
Distracting Blow (Warrior other)
Shock (Air Magic)
Healing Signet (Tactics)
Sprint (Strength)
Frenzy (Warrior other)
Resurrection Signet ()

Cripshot Blackout

Ranger/Mesmer
Level: 20

Expertise: 15 (11+4)
Wilderness Survival: 9 (8+1)
Marksmanship: 10 (9+1)
Domination Magic: 8

Crippling Shot [Elite] (Marksmanship)
Distracting Shot (Expertise)
Savage Shot (Marksmanship)
Debilitating Shot (Ranger other)
Troll Unguent (Wilderness Survival)
Blackout (Domination Magic)
Apply Poison (Wilderness Survival)
Resurrection Signet ()

Illusion Mesmer

Mesmer/Monk
Level: 20

Fast Casting: 7 (6+1)
Inspiration Magic: 14 (12+2)
Illusion Magic: 12 (11+1)

Migraine [Elite] (Illusion Magic)
Cry of Frustration (Domination Magic)
Conjure Phantasm (Illusion Magic)
Spirit of Failure (Inspiration Magic)
Power Drain (Inspiration Magic)
Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)
Mantra of Persistence (Inspiration Magic)
Resurrect (Monk other)

Hex Necro

Necromancer/Monk
Level: 20

Soul Reaping: 7 (6+1)
Curses: 12 (11+1)
Blood Magic: 12 (10+2)
Healing Prayers: 8

Life Siphon (Blood Magic)
Faintheartedness (Curses)
Shadow of Fear (Curses)
Blood Ritual (Blood Magic)
Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Draw Conditions (Protection Prayers)
Offering of Blood [Elite] (Blood Magic)
Resurrection Signet

Rotting Phantasm

Necromancer/Mesmer
Level: 20

Illusion magic: 8
Inspiration magic: 10
Death Magic: 16 (12+4)

Tainted Flesh [Elite] (Death Magic)
Rotting Flesh (Death Magic)
Putrid Explosion (Death Magic)
Price of Failure (Curses)
Conjure Phantasm (Illusion Magic)
Power Drain (Inspiration Magic)
Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
Resurrection Signet ()

WoH

Monk/Mesmer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 10 (9+1)
Healing Prayers: 14 (12+2)
Inspiration Magic: 9

Word of Healing [Elite] (Healing Prayers)
Infuse Health (Healing Prayers)
Orison of Healing (Healing Prayers)
Healing Touch (Healing Prayers)
Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Mend Condition (Protection Prayers)
Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)
Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)

Boon Prot

Monk/Mesmer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 16 (12+4)
Protection Prayers: 9 (8+1)
Inspiration Magic: 10

Divine Boon (Divine Favor)
Contemplation of Purity (Divine Favor)
Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
Mend Condition (Protection Prayers)
Signet of Devotion (Divine Favor)
Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)
Energy Drain [Elite] (Inspiration Magic)

Air Flagger

Elementalist/Monk
Level: 20

Energy Storage: 11 (10+1)
Air Magic: 15 (11+4)
Healing Prayers: 10

Lightning Orb (Air Magic)
Enervating Charge (Air Magic)
Gale (Air Magic)
Blinding Flash (Air Magic)
Windborne Speed (Air Magic)
Healing Breeze (Healing Prayers)
Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Ether Prodigy [Elite] (Energy Storage)

EDIT: attributes fixed on #2 #8
replaced phantom pain with cyr of frustration on #3

EDIT 2: #8 attributes fixed again

EDIT 3: New provisory version of #1, thanks Clinically Proven

EDIT 4: thumper and fire mes/ele replaced with axe warrior and cripshot ranger;
new el/mo flag runner

EDIT 5: new version of the tainted necro ,thanks JR-
replaced parasitic bond with draw conditions on the hex necro

Divineshadows · Apr 12, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahanaxar

Fast Fire

Mesmer/Elementalist
Level: 20

Fast Casting: 10 (8+2)
Inspiration Magic: 11 (10+1)
Fire Magic: 12

Immolate (Fire Magic)
Fireball (Fire Magic)
Rodgort's Invocation (Fire Magic)
Meteor (Fire Magic)
Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
Elemental Attunement [Elite] (Elementalist other)
Fire Attunement (Fire Magic)
Resurrection Signet

Why the aversion to superior runes? Your guild does have players that use PvE characters (for armor swapping), right? Anyway, this character could benefit from something like:

Fire Magic: 12
Fast Casting: 14 (10+4)
Inspiration: 9 (8+1)

I know fast casting has diminishing returns, but you only have one inspiration skill anyway and being able to cast your AoEs in the shortest possible amount of time seems more important for this character than the extra 2 energy from drain enchant. For this build to score kills, you are really going to have to get mileage out of the AoEs.

Your crippling shot ranger should be able to armor swap up to 15 expertise to make the skill cheaper. Also, illusion doesn't need to be 8 (can spec for 3) if it means you can get a longer crippled duration or a longer poison duration instead. Are hammer knockdowns and meteor knockdown enough snares for when your ranger is not with the team?

Not too keen on using a thumper (where is his elite anyway?) instead of a warrior. When facing 2 warrior teams, ranger armor is basically the same monk armor against the damage that matters. Would you want a monk on your team using a hammer on your front line? Also, the thumper does not get 16 in weapon mastery meaning lower damage and lower critical rate. I would replace the thumper for either a hammer warrior or an axe warrior (better armor means they can play more aggressively) that has some knockdown and disrupting chop.

Phantom pain on your migraine mesmer is an odd choice given that you have no control over when the deep wound will be inflicted. I'd drop this skill in favor of imagined burden, soothing images, sympathetic visage, cry of frustration (anti-spike skill), drain enchant, or something useful from the monk secondary that requires little to no attribute points to be effective.

The death necro is going to have energy problems if nobody is dying. Not sure about malaise either -- so this player gets to degen life while waiting for someone to die for an easily countered hex? Is there a less easily countered useful hex from the curses or death lines that you could fit in here instead?

No guardian on your boon monk makes me cry. I like the healing monk and the hex necro as is.

Mahanaxar · Apr 12, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Thanks for the suggestions.

At this moment we don't have a good equipped pve mesmer, so i'll stay with 10+2 fast casting and 8+1 inspiration.

Good points for the illusion mesmer and the cripshot ranger.
I'll swap phantom pain for CoF and lower illusion magic on the ranger.

I'm not really sure about the thumper...his job is to do some damage and add some degen with apply poison. Replacing him with a warrior means more damage but no degen.

The death necro is giving me some problems. I'm sure only about tainted+putrid and some kind of monk support.

The boon prot is just a standard build. Usually our boon monk has the freedom to rearrange the build a bit. As long as he can do his job, we are fine.

Divineshadows · Apr 12, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahanaxar

I'm not really sure about the thumper...his job is to do some damage and add some degen with apply poison. Replacing him with a warrior means more damage but no degen.

For a degen build to work, you need a plan to try and take heal party out of the equation -- distracting shot, diversion, disrupting chop, or spreading scourge healing. Are you counting on your flag runner to do this for you with distracting shot? I would think the answer is no given that you are counting on a thumper to spread poison rather than a crip-shotter. My view of how you would use the thumper was to try and mini-spike out targets low on life due to degen, which a warrior would be far superior at doing. You are using him to spread poison to everyone instead? With disease, burning, conjure phantasm, migraine, life siphon, and faintheart, this may be overkill since degen cannot go beyond -10.

Mahanaxar · Apr 12, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Alright, seems logical

What about this war?

Strength: 10 (9+1)
Axe Mastery: 16 (12+4)
Tactics: 10 (9+1)

Eviscerate [Elite] (Axe Mastery)
Executioner's Strike (Axe Mastery)
Distracting Blow (Warrior other)
Bull's Strike (Strength)
Healing Signet (Tactics)
Sprint (Strength)
Frenzy (Warrior other)
Resurrection Signet

Maybe swap distracting for disrupting chop?
On a migrained target there should be enough time to use it effectively.

Or maybe change completely 2 char?
Swap the thumper and the mes/ele for a poison/blackout cripshot ranger and a war?
And swap the cripshot flagger for an ele/monk.

XxForgexX · Apr 13, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

your ranger's going to want 15/16 Expertise, 3/8 Illusion, 8/9/10 Marksmanship (only go with 8 if you have the bows for it) with the rest in Wilderness Survival. breakpoints are your friend

Phelann · Apr 13, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahanaxar

I'm not really sure about the thumper...his job is to do some damage and add some degen with apply poison. Replacing him with a warrior means more damage but no degen.

Ever played in a real build with a bunny thumper? With expertise allowing them to chain skills, they are basically another form of degen with knockdowns. Dont even need apply poison.

Clinically Proven · Apr 13, 2006, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahanaxar

Thumper

Ranger/Warrior
Level: 20

Expertise: 11 (8+3)
Beast Mastery: 10 (8+2)
Wilderness Survival: 8 (7+1)
Hammer Mastery: 12

Backbreaker [elite] (Hammer Mastery)
Crushing Blow (Hammer Mastery)
Irresistible Blow (Hammer Mastery)
Troll Unguent (Wilderness Survival)
Storm Chaser (Wilderness Survival)
Tiger's Fury (Beast Mastery)
Apply Poison (Wilderness Survival)
Resurrection Signet

I would prefer a thumper build of:

Hammer Bash
Backbreaker*
Crushing Blow
Irresistible Blow
Tigers Fury
"For Great Justice"
~Utility Skill~ (suggestions: frozen soil, stormchaser, throw dirt)
Rez

I am a little concerned that the apply poison would be a little energy-heavy on a bunny, as you really want to be able to spam, spam, spam Irresistable Blow. Attributes wise (dependant on the utility skill, I run a spirit in mine), something like: Hammer 12, Exp 9 +1+1=11, BM 9 +2=11.

Just my two cents.

Mahanaxar · Apr 13, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelann

Ever played in a real build with a bunny thumper?

Not really...that's why I'm asking for suggestions here

So, what do you think is better? Fix the thumper or replace it with a warrior?

JR · Apr 13, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahanaxar

Not really...that's why I'm asking for suggestions here

So, what do you think is better? Fix the thumper or replace it with a warrior?

Personally I would switch out the Crip-Shot runner for an Emo with the usual Heal Party/BFlash etc, and move the cripshot guy up to the front squad. He can help spread degen with poison, keep any Heal Party spammers down with Interrupts, snare targets for your warriors, and help your monks kite opposing warriors. Drop the thumper, keep the warrior for quickly spiking down low targets. Possibly drop the fast-cast fire dude, not to sure about him.

Mahanaxar · Apr 13, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Ok, #1 is an axe war and #2 is a cripshot ranger now.
The new flagger is a standard ele/monk.

What do you guys think about this tainted necro?

Scourge Death

Necromancer/Monk
Level: 20

Soul Reaping: 9 (8+1)
Curses: 3 (2+1)
Death Magic: 16 (12+4)
Smiting Prayers: 10

Tainted Flesh [Elite] (Death Magic)
Rotting Flesh (Death Magic)
Price of Failure (Curses)
Judge's Insight (Smiting Prayers)
Scourge Healing (Smiting Prayers)
Draw Conditions (Protection Prayers)
Convert Hexes (Protection Prayers)
Resurrection Signet ()

JR · Apr 14, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Way too energy intensive, in my opinion.

Rotting Phantasm
Necromancer/Mesmer

Death Magic: 16 (12+4)
Inspiration Magic: 10
Illusion Magic: 8

Tainted Flesh [Elite] (Death Magic)
Rotting Flesh (Death Magic)
Putrid Explosion (Death Magic)
Conjure Phantasm (Illusion Magic)
Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
Power Drain (Inspiration Magic)
Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)
Resurrection Signet ()

Phelann · Apr 14, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

hadnt thought to put an interupt on that char, thats a cool idea.

JR · Apr 14, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelann

hadnt thought to put an interupt on that char, thats a cool idea.

The interrupt is just a nice bonus to the hot energy management.

Also I forgot to mention; +5 e-street creds for using GWFreaks.

Divineshadows · Apr 14, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Having conjure phantasm on a N/Me and the migraine mesmer would require massive coordination I would think to make sure they are not casting conjure on the same targets. Maybe some system of each casting on certain sets of the opposing team (1-4), (5-8). Casting on the same targets could result in a waste of energy and in cases where the N/Me casts on a target after the persistence mesmer has, wouldn't he cancel the mesmer's conjure for a much shorter duration one? Or am I wrong on the way this game mechanic works?

Mahanaxar · Apr 14, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Nice character, I like it.
I will only replace inspired hex or drain enchantment with price of failure: more warrior hate and more energy for the migraine guy.

And draw conditions for parasitic bond on the hex necro.

Thanks again, JR.

JR · Apr 14, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Having conjure phantasm on a N/Me and the migraine mesmer would require massive coordination I would think to make sure they are not casting conjure on the same targets. Maybe some system of each casting on certain sets of the opposing team (1-4), (5-8). ?

Not really neccasary, you can usually tell by degen rate who does and doesn't have it on. If you can't tell because all of the opposing team have a high degen, then who cares you are doing the job anyway. Conjure is spammable enough that I don't really think it is worth coordinating.

Neo-LD · Apr 16, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

WIth one mesmer already throwing CP around, theres no way Id take CP over Scourge Healing. This will be much better since it stops Heal Party spam, the chief threat to your build:

Necromancer/Monk
Level: 20

Soul Reaping: 6 (5+1)
Blood Magic: 11 (10+1)
Death Magic: 14 (10+4)
Smiting Prayers: 10

Rotting Flesh (Death Magic)
Offering of Blood (Blood Magic)
Shadow Strike (Blood Magic)
Vampiric Gaze (Protection Prayers)
Convert Hexes (Protection Prayers)
Scourge Healing (Smiting Prayers)
Blood Ritual (Blood Magic)
Resurrection Signet ()

Drop Blood Rit on the other nec so he has more time to hex.

Phelann · Apr 17, 2006, 03:09 AM // 03:09

rotting flesh without tainted is a terrible idea

Neo-LD · Apr 17, 2006, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Wrong. Tainted is a horrible waste of an elite. This team can handle degen if it gets diseased by accident (heal party). The other team might be able to normally but cannot if its heal party gets distracted and/or all of its players are scourged.